科学揭示出的多边恋
Kendra Pierre-Louis: For Scientific American’s Science Quickly, I’m Kendra Pierre-Louis, in for Rachel Feltman.
肯德拉·皮埃尔-路易斯（Kendra Pierre-Louis）： 这里是《科学美国人》（Scientific American）的《科学速报》（Science Quickly）栏目，我是肯德拉·皮埃尔-路易斯，今天代班瑞秋·费尔特曼（Rachel Feltman）。
For many of us, our mental picture of romantic love is a couple. After all, a firmly monogamous relationship between two people—ideally married—is often portrayed in popular culture as #goals. And to some degree that is reflected in American attitudes. A 2023 YouGov survey, for example, found that 55 percent of Americans preferred some form of fully monogamous relationship.
对于我们许多人来说，脑海中浪漫爱情的画面就是一对情侣。毕竟，两个人之间坚定的单偶制关系（最好是结了婚的）在流行文化中常常被描绘成一种“终极目标”（#goals）。在某种程度上，这也反映了美国人的态度。例如，2023 年 YouGov 的一项调查发现，55% 的美国人更倾向于某种形式的完全单偶制关系。
And yet that same poll found that roughly a third of Americans were interested in relationships that were something other than full monogamy. In fact, one in eight Americans said that, with their primary partner’s permission, they had engaged in sexual acts with someone other than that partner. But for many of us, our understanding of nonmonogamous relationships—especially polyamorous relationships, where people have multiple romantic relationships at the same time—remains murky.
然而，同一项民意调查也发现，大约三分之一的美国人对完全单偶制之外的关系感兴趣。事实上，八分之一的美国人表示，在获得主要伴侣允许的情况下，他们曾与该伴侣以外的人发生过性行为。但是，对于我们中的许多人来说，我们对非单偶制关系——尤其是人们同时拥有多段浪漫关系的多边恋（polyamorous relationships）——的理解仍然十分模糊。
I talked with Rebecca Lester, a professor of anthropology at Washington University in St. Louis and a licensed clinical social worker who recently wrote about polyamory in the March issue of Scientific American, to shed some light on the topic.
我与圣路易斯华盛顿大学人类学教授兼执业临床社会工作者丽贝卡·莱斯特（Rebecca Lester）进行了交谈，她最近在《科学美国人》3月刊上撰文探讨了多边恋（本站译文），以此来为我们阐明这个话题。
Hi, Rebecca. Thanks for taking the time to join us today.
嗨，丽贝卡。感谢你今天抽出时间加入我们。
Rebecca Lester: I’m happy to be here.
丽贝卡·莱斯特： 很高兴来到这里。
Pierre-Louis: How did you get interested in the subject of polyamory?
皮埃尔-路易斯： 你是如何对多边恋这个课题产生兴趣的？
Lester: I got interested in it many years ago through the process of my personal experiences in the dating world, actually. I had gone through a divorce, and I was back on the dating scene, and like most people these days I was on the apps, and it was something that I just kept seeing again and again on different profiles, people talking about nonmonogamy in all sorts of different ways. And so I got very intrigued by how just up front people were, how widespread it seemed to be, and as an anthropologist I got curious about what was going on.
莱斯特： 实际上，许多年前，我是通过自己在约会世界的亲身经历对它产生兴趣的。我当时经历了一场离婚，重新回到了约会市场，就像现在的绝大多数人一样，我也在使用约会软件。然后我开始在不同的个人资料中反复看到它，人们以各种各样的方式谈论非单偶制。因此，人们能如此坦率，以及这种现象似乎如此普遍，让我非常着迷；而作为一名人类学家，我也对这背后到底发生了什么产生了求知欲。
Pierre-Louis: Can you give us a basic description of what polyamory is?
皮埃尔-路易斯： 你能给我们基本描述一下什么是多边恋吗？
Lester: Yeah, so polyamory is a form of what is called consensual or ethical nonmonogamy, and it is a situation where people have more than one romantic partner—not just a sexual partner but an actual relationship, romantic partner—and everybody in the situation is on board and consents to what’s going on.
莱斯特： 好的，多边恋是所谓的“知情同意（consensual）”或“符合伦理（ethical）”的非单偶制的一种形式，在这种情况下，人们拥有不止一个浪漫伴侣——不仅仅是性伴侣，而是实质性的关系、浪漫伴侣——而且局中的每个人都是知情、参与并同意正在发生的事情的。
Pierre-Louis: So the U.S. is, by and large, at least socialized to be a monogamous society …
皮埃尔-路易斯： 所以，美国总体上至少是在向单偶制社会的方向进行社会化的……
Lester: Absolutely.
莱斯特： 绝对是这样。
Pierre-Louis: And we often think that there’s only one true love for us out there.
皮埃尔-路易斯： 而且我们常常认为，这个世界上只存在我们唯一的那份真爱。
Lester: Right.
莱斯特： 没错。
Pierre-Louis: How do polyamorists see love and intimacy sort of differ from how we’ve been socially conditioned?
皮埃尔-路易斯： 多边恋者看待爱与亲密关系的方式，与我们所受的社会规训有何不同？
Lester: So in polyamory the idea is that we have many people that we can love and who can love us; there’s not just one true love out there that you seek, and you find, and then you live in married bliss forever—or monogamous, doesn’t have to be married. But in polyamory the concept is that, as humans, we’re wired to connect, we’re wired to love, we’re wired to receive love and that that can take all sorts of different forms with different people.
莱斯特： 在多边恋的理念中，我们有很多可以去爱、也可以来爱我们的人；世界上并不是只有唯一的那份真爱等着你去寻觅、去发现，然后你们就永远生活在幸福的婚姻里——或者说单偶制里，不一定非得结婚。但在多边恋的观念里，作为人类，我们天生就渴望联结，天生就渴望爱与被爱，而这种爱可以与不同的人呈现出各种各样不同的形式。
Pierre-Louis: Can we talk a little bit about how polyamory is perceived in popular culture and then talk about sort of, how you highlight in the piece, the lived reality kind of contrasts with that?
皮埃尔-路易斯： 我们能不能谈谈流行文化是如何看待多边恋的，然后再聊聊正如你在文章中强调的那样，现实的切身体验又是如何与这种观念形成反差的？
Lester: In popular culture the perceptions of polyamory generally are fairly negative, especially, you know, as it’s grown in popularity and had portrayals on different media and things like that. It’s something that doesn’t fit well with our common understandings of what relationships, quote, unquote, should be, right? This idea that you’re not just monogamous with one partner, but you have many partners is usually seen as something unethical in our society, right?
莱斯特： 在流行文化中，对多边恋的看法通常相当负面，你知道，尤其是在它日益普及并在各种媒体上被描绘出来之后。它与我们对关系“应该”是什么样的常识性理解并不十分契合，对吧？这种你不仅仅与一个伴侣保持单偶制、而是拥有多个伴侣的想法，在我们的社会中通常被认为是不道德的，对吗？
And so that kind of framework is placed on polyamory as well, whereas in reality it’s very different than the way that most people think about it. The people that I spoke with and that I, that I know in this world, ethics is really at the heart of what they’re doing, and so they take it very, very seriously that everybody be thoroughly informed and thoroughly consent to any arrangements that are happening.
因此，这种刻板的框架也被套用在了多边恋上，但现实情况却与大多数人的想象截然不同。与我交谈过的人，以及我在这个圈子里认识的人，他们真正将伦理置于其行为的核心，因此他们非常非常重视确保每个人都能充分知情，并完全同意正在发生的任何关系安排。
And so that’s really different than the perception that it’s just an excuse to cheat or it’s a way to sneak around or whatever the case may be—just get sex with different people. Like, it’s very different than that, and unfortunately, that’s the way it’s often portrayed.
所以这与人们的刻板印象——认为它只是出轨的借口，或者是为了偷偷摸摸，或者是为了和不同的人发生性关系——有着天壤之别。它和那种情况截然不同，但遗憾的是，它往往就是被这样描绘的。
Pierre-Louis: People often assume that you can’t cheat if you’re in a polyamorous relationship, but in the piece you really lay out that cheating does exist. Can you talk about what it means to cheat in a relationship where you have multiple partners?
皮埃尔-路易斯： 人们通常假设，如果你处于多边恋关系中，你就不可能出轨，但你在文章中明确指出，出轨确实存在。你能谈谈在拥有多个伴侣的关系中，“出轨”意味着什么吗？
Lester: Absolutely, and I think this really illustrates the core of the focus on ethics and polyamory that yes, you can absolutely cheat. Just because you have multiple partners does not mean that anything goes and you can just do whatever you want all the time. Like I said, the focus is really on informed consent of all parties involved, so that means a really intense labor going into keeping open communication and making sure everybody is informed, right? That’s the heart of it.
莱斯特： 绝对可以，我认为这恰好说明了多边恋何以将伦理作为关注的核心——是的，你绝对可能出轨。仅仅因为你有多个伴侣，并不意味着你就可以为所欲为、随时做任何你想做的事。就像我说的，核心实际上是所有相关方的“知情同意（informed consent）”，这意味着需要投入极其密集的精力来保持开放的沟通并确保每个人都知情，对吧？这才是它的核心。
So if somebody is not keeping their partner informed about what they’re doing or they do something that’s contrary to what they agreed upon, then that would classify as cheating, and within polyamory that’s seen as absolutely unethical, just like it would be in monogamy.
因此，如果有人没有让他们的伴侣了解自己的行为，或者他们做了违背此前协议的事情，那就会被归类为出轨。在多边恋中，这被视为绝对不道德的，就像在单偶制中一样。
Pierre-Louis: I thought it was interesting, I think it was a woman in the piece, her [partner], I believe, had other partners outside of their marriage, but he was also meeting with the neighbor, and she didn’t know about the neighbor, and that’s cheating.
皮埃尔-路易斯： 我觉得文章里有个例子很有意思，好像是讲一位女士，她的（伴侣）在他们的婚姻之外有其他伴侣，但他同时也私下在和邻居约会，而她对邻居的事毫不知情，这就是出轨。
Lester: Exactly, that she knew about his other partners, and he knew about her other partners but then found out that he had had something going on with the neighbor, and that had not been disclosed, so that was cheating, yes.
莱斯特： 完全正确，她知道他的其他伴侣，他也知道她的其他伴侣，但后来她发现他和邻居有一腿，而且一直没有公开，所以那就是出轨，没错。
Pierre-Louis: It’s interesting that even in the context of a relationship where you’re allowed to have partners outside of that relationship someone would choose to hide it.
皮埃尔-路易斯： 很有意思的是，即使在允许拥有关系外伴侣的语境下，依然有人会选择隐瞒。
Lester: Yeah, that’s a really curious thing, right? And it suggests the act of cheating or dishonesty is certainly about something other than just freedom to have sex with someone because they have that opportunity, so there’s something else going on there that has led to the secrecy and the lying, and so that’s really where the issue lies.
莱斯特： 是的，这真的是件很让人好奇的事，对吧？这表明出轨或不诚实的行为，绝不仅仅是因为有了机会就想要获得与某人发生性关系的自由。那里头显然还有其他因素导致了隐瞒和撒谎，而这才是问题的症结所在。
Pierre-Louis: I think one of the things that I thought was really interesting in the piece, one of the things that was discussed is that some people who are attracted to polyamory, it’s coming from a place of wanting kind of full autonomy. And I thought that was interesting because so much of how we discuss relationships is often about having to give up some of that autonomy, and I was wondering about that tension.
皮埃尔-路易斯： 我认为文章中非常有趣的一点是讨论到，一些被多边恋吸引的人，是出于想要获得完全自主权（full autonomy）的渴望。我觉得这很有意思，因为我们对亲密关系的讨论往往都涉及必须要放弃一部分自主权，我很好奇这种张力。
Lester: Yeah, that is a tension, I think, that we all experience in any kind of relationship that we might be in, right? Like, how are we in connection with someone else but retaining our own sense of autonomy or individuality? And I think, you know, in polyamory it’s a little bit of a different set of issues involved, that on the one hand a person has autonomy—all people, ideally, in a polyamorous situation have autonomy to choose to engage or not engage in any relationship or any activity at any time.
莱斯特： 是的，我认为这种张力是我们在身处任何关系时都会体验到的，对吧？比如，我们如何既与他人建立联结，又保留自己的自主感或个体性？我认为在多边恋中，涉及的问题略有不同：一方面，每个人都拥有自主权——在理想的多边恋语境下，所有人都有随时选择参与或不参与任何关系、任何活动的自主权。
And I think what’s—partially what’s different about that in the monogamy is there’s this kind of presumption in our culture and in our history that once you are partnered with someone, especially if you are legally married to that person, there’s an expectation that you are giving up some of that autonomy, anyway, to be part of this relationship.
我认为，这在多边恋和单偶制中之所以不同，部分原因在于我们的文化和历史中存在一种预设，即一旦你与某人结成伴侣关系，尤其是如果你们在法律上结了婚，人们就会期望你无论如何都要放弃一部分自主权，以成为这段关系的一部分。
And in polyamory it’s just very different. Everybody retains their sense of autonomy, but any connection or relationship they build, it’s something that’s negotiated within each situation, as opposed to, you know, “Now we’re married and so we both expect each other to be, you know, sexually exclusive.” It’s something that, that in each situation is, is negotiated anew, as opposed to having like a priori expectation based on, you know, whatever your status is.
而在多边恋中，情况截然不同。每个人都保留着自己的自主感，他们建立的任何联系或关系，都是在每种具体情境下协商出来的，而不是那种“现在我们结婚了，所以我们都期望彼此在性方面保持排他性”。它是你在每一种特定情境下重新协商出来的东西，而不是基于你的“身份（status）”所产生的那种先验的（a priori）期望。
Pierre-Louis: I mean, that’s a good point because I feel like one of the, the jokes that I think people often make about polyamory is sort of like, “Where do they get the energy?,” that it just seems exhausting. And the piece notes that the mental and logistical work needed to keep polyamorous relationships functioning is often more significant than you would find in a monogamous relationship. And that feels like, to me anyway, for the people who are polyamorous, that for them, even though there’s this kind of up-front or this extra energy in negotiating the relationships the benefits outweigh the cost.
皮埃尔-路易斯： 我的意思是，这说到点子上了。因为我觉得人们常常开多边恋的一个玩笑就是：“他们哪来的精力啊？”这似乎让人筋疲力尽。文章也指出，维持多边恋关系运作所需的心理和后勤工作，通常比在单偶制关系中要大得多。但在我看来，对那些多边恋者而言，尽管在协商关系时需要付出这种前期的、额外的精力，但这带来的好处似乎盖过了成本。
Lester: Absolutely, and yes, there is more labor and energy that’s involved because of the importance placed on open communication and, like, constantly checking in and making sure everybody’s okay in a situation.
莱斯特： 绝对的，确实需要投入更多的劳动和精力，因为开放式沟通非常重要，你必须不断地沟通确认（checking in），确保在这种情况下每个人都没问题。
But the way people talk about it is that that is a small price to pay for having relationships that feel mutually fulfilling, that feel expansive, that feel fresh because you’re continually revisiting it and making adjustments if needed and really attending to that core foundation of the connection in a way that often in monogamous relationships kind of gets assumed that that’s already been done and taken care of, and people then move on. So it is extra work, but the benefits seem to far outweigh that for people who experience themselves as polyamorous.
但人们谈论它的方式是，这只是为获得彼此都感到充实、广阔且新鲜的关系所付出的一点微小代价。因为它之所以新鲜，是因为你在不断地重新审视它，在需要时做出调整，并真正关注这种联结的核心基础；而在单偶制关系中，人们往往会想当然地认为这些基础已经打好了、处理妥当了，然后就继续过日子了。因此，它确实是额外的工作，但对于那些认为自己是多边恋者的人来说，它的好处似乎远大于付出。
Pierre-Louis: One thing that I think comes up when people hear polyamory is they hear polyamory, but what they’re envisioning is polygamy.
皮埃尔-路易斯： 我觉得，当人们听到多边恋（polyamory）时，经常出现的一个情况是，他们听到的是这个词，但脑海中浮现的却是一夫多妻制（polygamy）。
Lester: Yes.
莱斯特： 是的。
Pierre-Louis: [Laughs.] You said that, like, so enthusiastically.
皮埃尔-路易斯： [笑] 你回答得真是，太有激情了。
Lester: [Laughs.]Yes.
莱斯特： [笑] 是的。
Pierre-Louis: Especially if we’re talking about male-female relationships, right, because there—we live in a patriarchal society, so there’s inherently a power dynamic there. How does polyamory differ from polygamy?
皮埃尔-路易斯： 尤其是当我们谈论男女关系时，对吧，因为——我们生活在一个父权制社会中，所以那里天然存在着一种权力动态。多边恋和一夫多妻制有何不同？
Lester: It is radically different. So polygamy is [primarily] a religious practice that is centered on the model of one man with multiple female partners. And that is very different than polyamory, where all partners have total autonomy to date or be with whomever they choose, depending on how you negotiated and your particular constellation. But women have multiple partners, men have multiple partners, may or may not be heterosexual—there’s a whole range of things that happen. But it’s very different than this idea that there is, you know, one man at the center around whom a group of women kind of orbit. It’s a totally different power structure.
莱斯特： 它们有着根本的不同。一夫多妻制[主要]是一种宗教实践，它以一个男性拥有多名女性伴侣的模式为中心。这与多边恋大相径庭，在多边恋中，所有伴侣都拥有完全的自主权去约会，或者与他们选择的任何人在一起，这取决于你们是如何协商的以及你们特定的关系星图（constellation）。女人有多个伴侣，男人有多个伴侣，可能是异性恋，也可能不是——会发生一系列极其丰富的情况。但这与那种“一个男人处于中心，一群女人围绕他旋转”的观念截然不同。这是一种完全不同的权力结构。
Pierre-Louis: Can you talk about the difference between polyamory and swinging?
皮埃尔-路易斯： 能谈谈多边恋和换妻（swinging，伴侣交换）之间的区别吗？
Lester: So swinging is a term that’s used for a couple who has outside sexual relationships with other people, consensual—it’s still a form of consensual nonmonogamy, but it’s purely based around sex. It’s about the sex; it’s about the sexual experience. And so many couples engage in that sort of thing.
莱斯特： 换妻（swinging）这个词用于形容一对伴侣在外面与其他人发生性关系，是在知情同意下的——它仍然是知情同意的非单偶制的一种形式，但它纯粹是基于性的。它关乎性；关乎性体验。许多伴侣都会参与这类活动。
But polyamory is different than that. They do have multiple sexual partners, usually, but it’s not focused around the novelty of the sexual experience. It’s really about building these deeper connections.
但多边恋与此不同。他们通常确实拥有多个性伴侣，但其焦点并不在于性体验的新鲜感。它真正关乎的是建立这些更深层的联结。
Pierre-Louis: And you’ve been digging into polyamory as an anthropologist for quite some time. Was there anything sort of really surprising to you?
皮埃尔-路易斯： 作为一名人类学家，你研究多边恋已经有相当长的一段时间了。有什么事情让你感到非常惊讶吗？
Lester: The thing that really surprised me as I started to learn about it—you know, I had the same kind of misconceptions, I think, as most people do when I first started looking into this about, you know, what people were up to, why they were motivated to do it. And really what surprised me and caught my interest and motivated me to do this research was realizing how much ethics is at the center of what people are doing and this really, really careful attention to the power dynamics, to the nature of relationships and really trying to do it in a way that is respectful all around.
莱斯特： 当我开始了解它时，真正让我感到惊讶的是——你知道，当我最初开始研究这个领域，想了解人们在做什么、为什么有动力这样做的时候，我想我和大多数人一样都有那些相同的误解。真正让我惊讶、引起我的兴趣并促使我进行这项研究的，是我意识到伦理在人们的行为中占据着多么核心的地位；他们对权力动态、关系本质有着极其仔细的关注，并且真正在努力以一种兼顾各方尊重的方式去实践它。
And so that just surprised me. I hadn’t thought about it in those terms until I encountered it, and I realized how different that is than what the kind of notions are for people who don’t have exposure to it. So that’s what really motivated the research.
所以那真的让我吃惊。在接触它之前，我从未从这些角度思考过，我也意识到这与那些未曾接触过它的人的刻板印象有多么大的不同。因此，这正是激发我进行这项研究的真正动力。
Pierre-Louis: If I can be so bold as to potentially be putting words in your mouth, it does seem like in some ways what you’re saying, or the takeaway from the piece can be, is that even if you have no interest in polyamory that there are things that people in monogamous relationships could draw from polyamory that could potentially enrich their own relationships.
皮埃尔-路易斯： 冒昧地把话往你嘴里塞一下，你的意思，或者说从这篇文章中得出的结论，似乎在某些方面表明：即使你对多边恋毫无兴趣，处于单偶制关系中的人，也能从多边恋中汲取一些可能丰富自身关系的东西。
Lester: Absolutely, yes, as an anthropologist and also as a therapist one does not need to be polyamorous or have any interest or intent toward polyamory to really be able to take some powerful lessons about relationship dynamics and relationship behavior and practices from the polyamory community. I think, you know, that the kinds of skills that people build when they’re really serious about doing this [in] an ethical way are skills that all of us need—in any relationship we’re in.
莱斯特： 绝对的，是的。作为一名人类学家，同时也是一名治疗师，我发现人们并不需要是多边恋者，或对多边恋有任何兴趣或意图，就能真正从多边恋群体那里学到关于关系动态、关系行为和实践的极其有力的一课。我认为，当人们真正严肃地以合乎伦理的方式去经营这段关系时所培养出来的技能，是我们所有人都需要的——无论我们处于何种关系之中。
Pierre-Louis: I thought that the part of the article where you were talking about how when couples or partners were experiencing discomfort that polyamorous partners would often make an effort of sort of leaning into it and having that clear and open communication and that monogamous couples often withdraw.
皮埃尔-路易斯： 我觉得文章中有一部分写得很好，你谈到了当情侣或伴侣感到不适时，多边恋伴侣往往会努力迎难而上（leaning into it），进行清晰坦诚的沟通，而单偶制伴侣却常常选择退缩。
Lester: That’s right. Because when you’re in a, a situation where there are multiple partners at play you ignore problems at your own risk, you know? Like, it’s dicey. It is dicey. I mean, there’s emotion involved. There’s all sorts of heightened feelings going on, and people are fully aware of that. And that’s part of the reason why it is so crucial to talk and communicate and not let things slide and, like, really try to attend to problems that might be going on. Because if you don’t, I mean, not only one relationship might get blown up, but it, it would affect a lot of people. And so it’s everybody’s responsibility to make sure that you’re really dealing with stuff as it comes up.
莱斯特： 没错。因为当你身处一个有多个伴侣参与的局势中时，无视问题的风险必须由你自己承担，你懂吗？比如，这非常危险。这真的很危险。我的意思是，其中牵涉到情绪。会有各种高涨的感情波动，而人们对此完全心知肚明。这也是为什么沟通、交流、不让问题听之任之，以及真正努力去解决可能存在的问题显得如此至关重要的部分原因。因为如果不这样做，我的意思是，不仅一段关系可能会被摧毁，它还会波及很多人。因此，确保在问题出现时真正去处理它们，是每个人的责任。
Pierre-Louis: Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us today.
皮埃尔-路易斯： 非常感谢你今天抽出时间来和我们交谈。
Lester: It’s my pleasure. I’m happy to be here.
莱斯特： 这是我的荣幸。很高兴能来到这里。
Pierre-Louis: That’s our show! Tune in on Friday, when we explore how AI can help protect wildlife.
皮埃尔-路易斯： 以上就是我们这期节目的全部内容！请在周五继续收听，届时我们将探讨人工智能如何助力保护野生动物。
Science Quickly is produced by me, Kendra Pierre-Louis, along with Fonda Mwangi, Sushmita Pathak and Jeff DelViscio. This episode was edited by Alex Sugiura. Shayna Posses and Aaron Shattuck fact-check our show. Our theme music was composed by Dominic Smith. Subscribe to Scientific American for more up-to-date and in-depth science news.
《科学速报》由我（肯德拉·皮埃尔-路易斯）、芳达·姆万吉（Fonda Mwangi）、苏什米塔·帕塔克（Sushmita Pathak）和杰夫·德尔维西奥（Jeff DelViscio）共同制作。本期节目由亚历克斯·杉浦（Alex Sugiura）编辑。谢娜·波塞斯（Shayna Posses）和亚伦·沙塔克（Aaron Shattuck）对我们的节目进行事实核查。我们的主题曲由多米尼克·史密斯（Dominic Smith）创作。订阅《科学美国人》以获取最新、最深度的科学新闻。
For Scientific American, this is Kendra Pierre-Louis. See you next time!
这里是《科学美国人》，我是肯德拉·皮埃尔-路易斯。我们下期见！